Two days ago one of my gamer friends forwarded me a link that was making rounds in the Magic the Gathering community. Odds are good that you’ve seen it as well. Apparently a man went to a high level tournament, found people with exposed “plumber crack” and posed next to them. He then posted the results to Reddit where it jumped to Buzzfeed, Kotaku, and… Jesus, is that Time.com? And it has shown up on my Facebook feed about 5 times in the last few days.
Looking for the link? Well you won’t find it here. Your Google skills are masterful enough. Looking for a better picture? Again, I’m sure you’ll have no problem seeing it once you Google it. The picture I’m including just shows the man and what he was intending to ridicule, and protects the identity of just about everyone else caught in the picture.
Wondering why? I’m absolutely furious that someone would do something so cruel and invasive, and in the name of the game that I love.
Whether it’s motivated from a truth or a cultural bias, throughout my life I have had to be on the defensive about my love of RPG’s, video games, tabletop games, and Magic the Gathering. I clearly remember the time as a 15 year old I was accosted by a group of boys while entering a comic store and asked if I was going to “jerk off to the comics I was buying.” I played the RPG Vampire the Masquerade in dark basements where we never spoke about the campaign outside of that safe space. I have gone through relationships in which my partner told me I was too old to play Magic.
I even remember a time recently when a fellow Magic player and I were at a bar and someone asked us how we knew each other. Before I could say anything, he blurted out “we play cards together,” and changed the subject. Apparently “cards” can be interpreted as “poker” which is much more socially acceptable. Even though I never call up my Magic-playing friends and ask to play “cards.”
Vampire the Masquerade circa 1994
Maybe that’s why some of my closest friends are those I met through gaming. We had to endure isolation and potential ostracism to do this thing that we loved so much. I hadn’t really thought about it until now, but it’s true. The picture to the right is of 4 people in my gaming group from high school, and I still am in touch with them all today.
Over the years I have acquired 20 or so close friends who play Magic the Gathering. They are a diverse group: men and women, large and small, socially awkward and smooth. I have friends in this group who follow every sporting event and others who just don’t care. I have married friends, single friends, polyamorous friends, straight friends, gay friends.
And this is why I get so angry and sad when an article like this goes viral. Because instead of seeing the diverse group of fascinating, empathetic, and unique people that are allured by the complex game of Magic, they see a bunch of overweight slobs who dress poorly.
Let me get this out of the way too: in no way do I blame the victims in this situation. There have been calls of “well if they had found clothes that fit, they wouldn’t have been in this embarrassing place. Maybe this is a wake up call for them.”
Sorry, you don’t get to dress your cruelty as a public service message. Even if this was meant as a PSA (which the creator alleges was part of his inspiration), this is a terrible way to do it. Publicly embarrassing strangers for how they look is absolutely unacceptable. The photographer specifically chose to focus only on these people, thus this is the perception that outsiders see of who a Magic player is. Way to make a PSA that hurts the community as a whole.
Remember that these are actual humans with lives that go beyond the unfortunate fame they unexpectedly acquired. In an email thread, a friend of mine posted the following:
“Having been ‘that guy’, I don’t find this funny. It was pointed out to me once and a large production was made out of it, really fucking juvenile and I wanted to punch people, hard. Yes, I own a belt (several actually) and always try to wear baggy enough clothes to cover up, sometimes it just happens.”
And there’s this this tweet:
Yes, the people exploited in these photos might have had the option to be more on top of how they were exposed that day. But the guy who posted it also had the option of whether to post it or not.
So what do I want to get out of this? Why am I writing? Mostly to explain to the people who are sharing this on the Internet why I don’t think it’s funny and why they might want to think twice before perpetuating this story. I also want to defend this game that has brought me so much happiness. Not from the people experiencing a temporary wardrobe malfunction, but from the large population that desperately wants the stereotype of what a Magic player is to be true (sadly including the man who posted these pictures). Unlike the two dimensional snapshots taken at this tournament, each of us is a human with a detailed, complex life. If we could only get our fellow gamers to treat us as such, maybe the rest of the world would see that too.
Neon and Shy 
” I also want to defend this game that has brought me so much happiness.” sorry buddy but the game is not under attack People that don’t respect themselves enough to wear proper clothing are.
Game is definitely not under attack. I’ve asked at least 100 people today if they even know what Magic is. Nope. Haven’t heard of it. A few heard a joke about it on Late Night, and have since forgot about it.
Anything that characterizes people who play as people with defining negative characteristics is an attack on the game itself. Do you think anyone saw these pictures that was unfamiliar to Magic though: “Hey, now that’s an activity I’d like to take part in!”
No, they saw an association between what’s seen in these pictures and the game.
I’ve encountered too many people who hear that I play Magic and say, “But you don’t look like (Insert insulting description of Magic players).”
So maybe we should take the time and effort to correct and instruct these (Insert insulting description of Magic players) so that society at large does not see this stereotype anymore. Or we could ignore them and hope it goes away on its own. That always works right?
If you don’t want your asscrack shown to a MINIMUM of 4000 people(amount in attendance of tournament), wear pants that fit. Problem solved.
I was wearing pants that fit, and I was covering it up with a coat, he had to force that angle to get his image of my butt cleavage.
Not that well apparently.
find jeans that fit someone who is not skinny. as someone who is both tall and fat it is almost impossible to find jeans that fit, most jeans tend to be lower rise which makes them more likely to expose plumbers crack. If you notice the guy posing made sure his back was never to the camera. I am sure he would have been flashing ass crack too.
Then wear a longer shirt! Jesus, is it that hard? I see plenty of overweight and obese people in class and around my school/town, some of them very tall, but I can’t remember the last time I saw an exposed ass crack. Also, it’s not just about being fat — I’m a skinny girl and I still have to wear a belt and pay attention so that I don’t end up like the people in these photos. It only takes a little effort. And it has nothing to do with shaming fat people or Magic — it’s not gross because they’re fat or nerdy, it’s gross because their ass is hanging out. Have some respect for the people around you. If all else fails get some extra long T-shirts or jackets or something.
I am fairly certain i’m the subject of the 8th image in his sideshow. or at least that looks like me from behind, I was wearing a black shirt and blue jeans with a belt on day 1. I was also, as I typically do, had a coat draped over my chair to prevent whatever accidental crack slip that might occur because they don’t make Convention center chairs and tables for tall fat guys and have to sit wierd and constantly shift to stay comfortable for 50 minutes.
so this guy had to intentionally take the high-angle selfie to get my crack on camera, which invalidates any sort of claim of malice on his part, he was going out of his way to harass me in that Image.
I’m really sorry this happened to you. 😦
I am, too. And why is this treated so lightly? If this guy was posing with skirt shots of a girl, it would be harassment. If it’s a dude, it’s cool? Not ok. Bad double standard… and it should totally be reported.
This is a reply to “:(” The difference is that up-skirt shots of girls are taken from crazy angles where a normal person would never be, like from the floor or very close to the floor. There’s no other way to get that angle, even if she’s sitting down. These photos were all of something that is clearly visible to anyone standing behind the guy, no weird camera angles needed. If you go out in public with part of your body hanging out that you don’t want photographed, you might suffer the consequences. If I went out topless, I wouldn’t get angry at someone for taking a picture, that’s the risk you take being in public. Cover your body up if you want privacy.
As a girl, I say it’s still not okay. It should still be treated seriously. The only difference is that a butt crack is seen as “something that shouldn’t be seen” but not as “private parts” or “sexy”.
If this dude wanted to raise awareness in the community, he would have TOLD people instead of taking pictures and putting them online. He might have written about it and mentioned how many of these people he saw, and without pictures or names, it wouldn’t be so invasive and rude.
Not a single photo in this album has a coat on the back of the chair. You can clearly see the back of every chair in each photo. Every single person in these photos had an absolutely completely exposed crack. Not the same as an upskirt by the way, no effort had to be made to gain these pictures, they cracks were open to the public so to speak. Is it mean or rude? maybe. But that doesn’t make it bullying. If you want people in the community to stop being dicks to new players, and to stop being misogynistic you have to confront them. If you want them to stop showing their crack and wear deodorant, you have to confront them. You can’t expect the community to change for the better and improve it’s image if you can’t hurt someones feelings a little bit.
Umm.. Confronting them and posting their picture on Redit for the world to see are two entirely different things. Something that should be pretty obvious.
Glass, I’m really sorry this happened to you, and to everyone else pictured.
Public shaming on the internet has run its course, and now is just sad, petty, mean, cruel, and has no kindness in its intent. I hope that this is realized sooner than later, and things like this become a thing of the past, as the shamer becomes the shamed, and the victims become acknowledged.
You didn’t deserve this, and I’m sorry it happened.
I just looked at all the pictures, on another site, and absolutely none of the images involve a coat draped over the chair in any way. Are you sure it’s you? Why can’t you tell? I looked at the 8th image, then I checked all the rest of them. There was only one photo where the guy was wearing a black shirt, but it was clear that the crack would have been visible to anyone standing anywhere behind him. Why don’t you wear a longer shirt or get pants that fit? I see plenty of overweight people in my classes and at school, but none of them ever have their ass crack hanging out.
I had to look three times at that photo of your gaming group, and. I still only think it’ snot me because you said “high school”. I used to wear flannel over t-shirt and a PSU hat to gaming.
In any case, I hadn’t looked at the original link, but I was glad to look at yours.
Too funny! Maybe that was the uniform.
glassthegrey: you’re so embarrassed by a picture that isn’t identifiable as you, that you’ll happily identify yourself in it to tell us how embarrassed you are?
BTW, whoever is sitting in that chair is sitting backwards. You can tell from the curve of the seat and the lack of a chair back. Whoever that is in the photo (giving you the benefit of the doubt here) wasn’t using their coat as strategically as you.
I hear you. This photo stunt was juvenile to the Nth degree. The victims don’t deserve this humiliation. The hobby doesn’t need this instance of stereotype reinforcement.
Thanks for the comments.
“If you didn’t want X to happen, you shouldn’t have Y.” While sometimes useful in the world of logic, there are too many variables here to be realistically viable. The biggest of those variables being “If this person had decided not to post embarrassing pictures of strangers on the web, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.” I don’t understand the impulse to instead blame the person whose privacy was compromised when someone consciously decided to post those pictures online. They didn’t deserve it.
The saddest part is that even if you are personally offended by the targets’ exposure, posting something like this online will invariably hurt the Magic community as a whole, as that becomes the primary external perception. The way they dressed could not have done nearly as much damage to the reputation of the people who play this game.
So, are you this indignant about People of Walmart (and the many other similar sites/galleries on the interwebs), especially since those rarely (unlike this gallery) hide the faces of the people we’re supposed to be laughing at? Or is it funny when it’s people you don’t relate to?
Really great point. There was a time when I did find People of Walmart entertaining. About 2 years ago, after the Gerald Freas incident, a friend of mine made the same analogy, and I came to the conclusion that I didn’t like the way that site got its laughs at the expense of others.
So no, I’m not a fan of People of Walmart. I understand why people think it’s funny, but it’s a little too anonymous, invasive, mean for me.
I respect that viewpoint, even if I don’t necessarily agree with it (still not sure how I feel, forex I enjoy “so you got wasted” on the chive, don’t look at people of Walmart, and “creeper shots” are right out. I feel like there’s a line but I’m not sure where it is). It just seems to me that a lot of the anger I’ve seen has been from people who…let’s just say haven’t thought about the similarities between those things before, and it’s frustrating to see “how dare he” juxtaposed with “but these people though, hilarious!”
I’m not saying that only nice humor should be around, but if people are questioning these contradicting ideas, maybe that’s one good thing that can come from it.
I have not looked at the slideshow and I won’t because I too feel this is an invasion of privacy. This was out right malicious. I haven’t had time to read all the comments, but the one thing I want to point out is that the one photo highlighted for this post, you can see both of his hands. This is not a selfie; unless he is setting up a tripod in the middle of a gaming hall! Unlikely. So there isn’t one jerk, there are two…..
to the guy at’s embarassed, PULL UP YOUR PANTS!
As someone that worked at Walmart and also plays magic I have seen my fair share of asscracks and other gross things. Also working at a mental hospital ive seen all kinds of stuff. I also am a bigger guy and I really have no idea how there always manages to be guys like this with crack hanging out. Like I can feel if mine starts to show, and its gross for anyone that has to walk by you. We all know there is the socially inept, sometimes dirty, smelly, annoying, and crack showing members of the magic community and we deal with it. These pics dont even show their faces and I found it funny. Ive never been ashamed of playing magic its one of my favorite things to do, and the only people that will realize their friends are in these pics probably have to see their asscrack all the time and I feel bad for them. #stopthecracks
For my part I’ve never found People of Walmart funny. I know folks that do but IMO it’s just as tasteless.
I usually don’t follow links of the type but couldn’t resist given that I have played Magic fervently for years and still love table top games, RPGs and video games.
I am glad I did, having found your post well articulated and interesting, which is rare for such things!
Reading it made me realize that when it came to such things, being a girl prevented me from being exposed to that type of ostracism (although I have been ridiculed for other reasons, so I can sincerely empathize).
Your article made me think profusely (so thank you for that) and the conclusion I have reached at this time is that I am sad that we live in a society that this could gain such popular appeal. But I find it even sadder that someone could find this a worthwhile investment of their time and I pity him considerably more than the people he’s making fun of.
Not to get too philosophical, but I wish that the ones pictured would realize how little importance something like this has in the end. Nobody who’s opinion is worth something would ever change their viewpoint over their butt cracks.
If they didn’t care, such things would loose their meaning.
Now, I am not saying I’d be above caring (I have as much ego as the next guy) but I wish we all wouldn’t.
And next, world peace and donuts for all 😛
Is everyone equally upset by People of walmart. com? Just curious?
I commented on one of the above comments about this. I lost my taste for People of Walmart a few years back after the last time something like this happened.
I’m not as vehement about that because I don’t frequent Walmart. I do play MtG.
It’s all cruelty, so yes, I am equally upset. I actually find People of Walmart to be even more upsetting because of it’s blatant classism, but all forms of this type of “humor” are disgusting.
Can someone identify the scumbag so I can mark him if I ever see him. Bullies shouldn’t be alive.
Tasteless? Maybe. Over the line? Perhaps. Bullying? Get the fuck out. No names were mentioned, no faces were shown. The people were clearly not meant to be identified.
I think his photo series sends a pretty clear message that if you go to a Magic tournament, there are people waiting mock you for your weight, the way you dress, etc. That you better not let your guard down, or people are going to make fun of you. I don’t know how much more like bullying that could be.
There are those who say “if you didn’t dress so badly, we wouldn’t make fun of you.” Sounds an awful lot like something a bully would say.
People make fun of others behind their backs all the time, and no one ever calls it bullying. IMO bullying implies a direct intent to hurt the person you’re bullying. I’d be much more inclined to agree if he either had called them out at the event, or shown their faces, but he did neither.
Is bullying different than shaming, because I think it is pretty obvious shaming. I will agree the faces weren’t exposed, but I have been going to MTG tournaments for about a year and there are several people that I don’t know by name but I would recognize from behind just becasue I have seen them several times. And if you are spending enough time to go to a large tournament like this it is likely you have met these people before and these people can be recognized and identified.
I will admit to laughing the at the first picture I saw, but then I put myself in those peoples shoes and realized how not funny it is.
Any life-long gamer should have skin thicker than the waistlines of the guys in the photos – including the guy clowning the buttcracks.
In my youth, I had the odd combination of a football player’s frame (and membership on the team, for a while) and the intellectual wherewithal to understand that non-athletic games were more interesting and more challenging than sports.
Even though I was a side of beef defensive lineman, I still got griefed for being a nerd, got all the boilerplate aspersions cast upon my personal character in exchange for my fascination with magic and monsters. Even in my adult life, which is when I began playing Magic: The Gathering, I got the standard nonsense. I’ve turned off my (and your) share of ladies who didn’t like the hobby for a variety of reasons (waste of money, the people I hang around, general geekiness cluttering my abode). I perpetually shame and embarrass my family, who tend to think gaming is for children.
All of that is in spite of the fact that I’ve traveled the country and met thousands of awesome people, and made myself and other people large piles of money running events, wheeling and dealing – none of which I would have gotten to do had I not invested myself and my time in the community.
No matter what – even if every Magic player were a svelte, business-suit-wearing, non-awkward, well-spoken and well-rounded citizen of renown – there will be some person out there who trashes the game and its devotees, gaming in general, nerds, geeks, whatever.
Crying about it and calling people bullies just proves weakness, rather than demonstrating resolve. Ladies and gentlemen, we must refuse to care what fun is made of us – especially when it’s “us” making fun of us.
We must also admit to our shortcomings. I read the tweet above about the fellow who spied himself in one of the photos, and was extremely embarrassed. The fact of the matter is, he SHOULD be embarrassed – and he should have had that degree of personal shame before he went out in public dressed as though his waist were 6 inches smaller than it actually is.
I’m very sorry that his or anyone’s feelings were hurt. I have a certain degree of empathy, being as I am one of the potential arse-crackateers at any given event. But I know how big I am, and I know how to dress to preserve whatever modesty a 320-pound beast can preserve. If I’m going to wear my belt IMPROPERLY – I’m at least going to wear a long shirt that hangs below the “hangover.” And really, that’s more a gesture of respect for everybody else at the event. Nobody wants to see the assquatch. Not even me, and it’s mine.
I know I’m fat. If you stood in front of me screaming “FATASS!” I would have no option but to agree with you. If you took a picture of me and posted it on Facebook and remarked “LOOK AT THIS FATASS!” I would perhaps wonder at your motives (assuming we hadn’t recently discussed politics), but otherwise – I know I’m fat. Furthermore, I know that at least in my case, I can do something about it, but prefer to scarf Drumsticks and BBQ instead of lifting heavy objects over and over again.
This incident should not be increasing awareness of “bullying” in the Magic community. It should be increasing awareness of a DIRE NEED for increased personal dignity (in advance), self-respect, and hygiene. Let the gallery of butt ever haunt the depth of your mind. Think: There could be a copycat at the next tournament I attend. How, then, shall I dress myself?
Perhaps you shall take a thorough shower, apply deodorants and a bit of cologne. Perhaps a splash of talc. Perhaps – put that XL Tee Shirt far far away from your 4XL torso and instead take a trip to the Big & Tall – get some stylish, comfortable, 4XT button-downs with amble tails. Measure yourself at the WAIST, not at the top of your legs, and buy some comfortable pants that fit you properly, and belt up.
If we’re going to be obsessing over “representing the game” – represent the game with your own presence, and not by getting people suspended for pointing out glaringly obvious flaws.
Asserting that it is acceptable to mock someone who is overweight because you are overweight and would find it acceptable if you were mocked does not, in fact, make it acceptable.
Except these guys aren’t being made fun of for being overweight. They’re being made examples of because they are don’t, for whatever reason, take the time to have good hygiene and dress themselves properly. If you want to white knight this issue then that’s your decision, but let’s be real – if you walked into the room pictured, would you stoically endure row upon row of exposed crack? Would you not bat an eyelid? Or would you think “geez dudes pull up your pants”?
I’m all for individual liberty. Do what makes you happy; having an exposed ass crack isn’t hurting anyone. However, if you are embarrassed when people make jokes about your exposed asscrack, maybe you should make sure your asscrack isn’t exposed. These are grown adults who have learned to play a semi-complicated game in a competitive setting and get themselves physically to and from the event. They don’t need to be babied or shielded from the truth.
I think that if you want to have a discussion about the state of hygiene and personal appearance in the world of Magic the Gathering, that’s a separate discussion that I’m not particularly interested in. Not without some actual data and statistics besides “I’ve been to tournaments and ______ is what they’re like” being shouted back and forth.
My point is that justifying being cruel to others and humiliating them publicly with “I’m doing them a favor” or “they deserve it anyway” or “someone has to tell them” perpetuates a culture of intimidation.
I find it much less likely that people are going to start seeing people improperly covered and decide to stop wearing pants (as one slippery slope commenter suggested), than that people are going to see public outing and ridicule as acceptable behavior and start finding other ways they can out people who “deserve it.” Whether this is “anonymous” or not, it’s bullying, and no one deserves to be treated that way.
Oh, I understand now. It’s cool to mock and ridicule a guy playing his Simic Evolve deck with your friends between rounds, but when it comes to cracks, now he is undeserving of the bashing.
I’m not sure when you thought Magic, especially competitive, became dominated by geniunely nice people and not pompous, arrogant individuals who are not nearly as coy, cunning, and brilliant as they seem to believe, but you should reevalute your surroundings next time you are in a convention center.
Getting blowhard about this isnt accomplishing anything except affirming your naivety or hypocrisy, either way concerning.
You might be right about the competitive community. I’m almost exclusively a cuber (cubist?) at this point, so I don’t have a lot of contact with that world.
But I do think you’re seriously underestimating the Magic community as a whole. As I stated, I have met some amazing people at both the casual and competitive levels of the game. I see these diverse communities at high-level tournaments, at my local stores, on mtgsalvation, and countless other places. If the community of Magic were overwhelmingly and consistently negative, I think I would have dropped the game a long time ago.
For the record, I don’t make fun of the guy playing his Simic Evolve deck, though that might be because I don’t really play competitively. And I also didn’t really think I was being a blowhard, though I’m sure that’s up for interpretation. Perhaps it’s my naivety that’s keeping me from seeing my blowhardiness? 🙂
Well written, well said. Kudos. As a fellow fantasy lover, and I loved Magic when I had the time for it in college, I honestly believe we have to defend our positions as much as we do because we’re the few gifted with powerful imagination paired with acceptance.
We have the power of envisioning role playing, the ability to bring things in our imagination to life, and for some of us – live in them to create worlds of storytelling. Where else do stories like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter come from? A lot of people fail to realize this, but actors are simply the ones that take what we do to the level others understand. And enjoy.
But for those of us with a brilliant imagination, I swear we view movies like LOTR and HP on a whole new level. And it sucks, for the lack of a better word, that we get treated like this for it. Although most times, we get treated like this because of it as well.
Wish people would just f**ing quit the bullying.
This to me is not bullying at all. I have seen worse, non anonymous bullying in the Magic community before, be it people calling each other racial slurs, gender slurs, sexual slurs, etc. I’ve seen people wrongfully accused of cheating, and cheaters who remain uncaught. This is a drop in the bucket and I never would have thought this was shaming, because the people who have to be identified or come out to be identified to be shamed.
I am not going to be popular to say this, but as someone who has been to Gencon like 12 years in a row and has played magic for almost 20, there is a problem in the gaming community. There are some people who are unhealthy, unsanitary, and unforgiving about walking around exposed and I hate it. I have walked past people at gencon or major magic events who have looked like they had not showered in a week and people who smelled like death. People who literally can make me sick by being near them. There is a line you cross at some point where there is a difference between me respecting you because you are different and you DISRESPECTING US because you refuse to understand the social conventions.
I look at this photo thread and I do not see a guy who trying to pick on people, I see a guy who is pointing at a problem. Where is the line? Can I go to a magic event with my ass fully exposed? How about half way? Does my intent play into it? What about my genitals. Maybe I just don’t like the way they feel behind a zipper and they need to breath?
There has to be a line. Where it is, well that may be hard to nail down, but somethings are very obviously over the line and it is my feeling that people who take no effort to cover themselves like this are over it. You can disagree with me, but that is how I feel.
I work at a gaming store and this is indicative of a larger problem, i.e. people who don’t take care of themselves or their image. Why can I go to a nice restaurant and not see dozens of ass cracks, but the second a Magic tournament starts its nothing but fat smelly guys as far as the eye can see?
Is it too generalized to say that gamers don’t have good hygiene? The people that come into my store generally don’t. The game room smells like sweat and funk when we have a big event. The bathrooms get trashed with piss everywhere and used paper towels on the floor. The food consists of Taco Bell and cheap pizza. It probably sucks to see yourself in this context, but who is really to blame – the person with the problem or the person shining a light on it? If you get diabetes from drinking soda all day, will you blame the soda company for giving it to you or will it be your fault for drinking that swill?
People have to decide for themselves to take accountability and decide they will do whatever they have to do so their ass crack doesn’t get photographed and plastered all over facebook instead of blaming ill-fitting pants or malicious camera-phone users. Sorry, I really don’t have sympathy for people who have made their bed and now have to lie in it.
This went viral because people got all butt hurt about it. If people could just learn to laugh at themselves it would have passed and NO ONE who doesn’t play magic would have ever seen it. Now we not only look like people who can’t dress themselves, we look like fucking babies too.
the tournament in question had 4300 players. gather 4300 humans together in one place, make them all sit in folding chairs, and then count how many butt crack pics you get. it’s inevitable in a group this large. it has nothing to do with what the people are doing. and it is really awful to mock people because their shirt/pants decided to betray them ONCE during a high stakes mental sport that lasted 10+ HOURS.
Welcome to “How female gamers in any online genre get treated” 101, boys. Just sayin’.
There’s definately a great deal to find out about this topic.
I like all of the points you’ve made.